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Airport Chat Between Bob Dylan and Eduardo Bueno
Continuing what we did not start, we bring to this nonexistent stage two legendary figures from this world without memories, Eduardo Bueno, a well-known Brazilian writer and historian, a great admirer of pop culture and music, and Bob Dylan, an American singer who needs no introduction and for this reason we will not introduce him.
Although there is no direct and personal connection between the two, Eduardo Bueno mentions and frequently makes references to Bob Dylan in his works and interviews. Eduardo highlights the importance of Dylan, a symbol of counterculture and one of the greatest composers of the 20th century.
Eduardo Bueno is a music fan, especially rock and folk music from the 1960s and 1970s, periods in which Bob Dylan was a protagonist in American music. For Eduardo Bueno, Dylan is a chronicler of his time, just like himself, who dedicates himself to telling the story of Brazil that many people do not know. Bueno's admiration for Bob also reflects his interest in figures who challenged the cultural and political status quo, something Dylan did consistently throughout his career. But let us cut the meaningless talk and get to the point: a dialogue between the two that challenges reality.
Eduardo Bueno: Bob, it is a pleasure to talk to you. Man, I grew up listening to your music. That is why I feel comfortable calling you Bob. Blowing' in the Wind touched me deeply, it made me think about how music can be a powerful tool of protest. Do you agree?
Bob Dylan: Of course, music goes where it needs to go, doesn't it? The answers are out there, in the wind, as I said in that song. There is no right way, no single way, but rather what we feel needs to be said.
Eduardo Bueno: Exactly! Although I am a journalist and not a historian, I have always seen history as something alive, that dialogues with the present, just like your songs that speak of the lack of freedom, of injustice. In Brazil, we have been through so many struggles, and your music has accompanied me on these journeys.
Bob Dylan: The struggle never ends. I have always written about what was in my heart, what I saw and felt around me. There is no escaping that.
Eduardo Bueno: And the way you do it is so unique. I am a guy who tells stories about Brazil, and I try to do something similar, to rescue the past to understand the present. The difference is that I use words printed on the pages of books while you use music, another genuine form of expression. We are both chroniclers in a certain way, don't you think?
Bob Dylan: Yes, we are all storytellers. The format doesn't matter much. What matters is the impact, the message. And sometimes, we don't even know the impact we are having, do we? It's like throwing a stone into the water and watching the ripples spread.
Eduardo Bueno: Perfect. In Brazil, we use the term "airhead" for someone who doesn't pay attention to things, but I always think that being like the wind, without a fixed direction, is also a force. After all, the wind carries changes, just like your songs.
Bob Dylan: That's beautiful, man. That’s it. We don't need to know everything, we just need to keep moving, feeling what's coming, and letting things unfold.
Eduardo Bueno: That's right, Bob. It's like Zeca Pagodinho says: let life take me...
Bob Dylan: who's Zeca Pagodinho? Oh, yes, that Brazilian who sings samba. Yes, of course, he's right. It's not about us wanting to live our lives, that's not possible, it's not about life that must adapt to you, it's about you who must adapt to life, but in your own way. It's about you who must find your own path.
Eduardo Bueno: And your songs continue to unfold stories for me and so many others. It's like going back in time and at the same time, looking to the future.
Bob Dylan: I have a question I'm eager to ask. What was it like translating On The Road?
Eduardo Bueno: Man, translating On The Road was a trip! I was already a fan of the book, so when they invited me to do the translation, I knew it would be a huge responsibility. Jack Kerouac is unique, isn't he? His rhythm, the repetitions, the way he uses words to create a flow... like a jazz jam session. You couldn't just take the text and translate it, because you lose the rhythm, the spirit of the thing, you know.
Bob Dylan: I can imagine. Kerouac had this kind of loose approach, right? As if he was improvising. And the language is full of nuances. How did you manage to maintain that essence?
Eduardo Bueno: The biggest challenge was capturing that flow. Kerouac wrote with an intensity that was almost physical, visceral. I had to try to get inside his mind and think about how he would choose words in Portuguese. And it was challenging, because the American slang of the 1950s, the kind of "beatnik" way of speaking, doesn't always have a direct equivalent in Portuguese. I had to adapt some things, create solutions that maintained the spirit of the work without betraying the original text.
Bob Dylan: I think you found the rhythm of the road in Portuguese.
Eduardo Bueno: I tried, Bob! The thing is that On The Road is a work of movement. The story is about being in constant movement, not only physically, but mentally. And I, as a translator, had to convey this movement, this frenzy. It was an adventure, in a way, because translation is also a form of travel. At the end, I felt like I had crossed the United States with Sal Paradise and Dean Moriarty.
Bob Dylan: It seems like you did exactly what Kerouac would have wanted. Translation is also a form of freedom, right? Adjusting the words to the rhythm and the road.
Eduardo Bueno: Yes, I think freedom is the key word. In the end, the translation was about recreating the rebellious and restless spirit of the work. And it was incredible to be able to contribute to that, to bring Kerouac to Brazilian readers.
Bob Dylan: I'm glad you were able to overcome this challenge. It's a shame I don't know Portuguese to enjoy your work.
Eduardo Bueno: Bob, you’re one of my idols, man, in fact, the greatest idol; but I can't help but mention something that bothers me. Back in the sixties, you’re the spokesperson for a generation that wanted to change the world. Your protest songs gave voice to so many struggles, but suddenly you simply distanced yourself from that. It was as if you had abandoned that spirit of protest. Many of us felt that way.
Bob Dylan: It's funny, Eduardo. I never asked to be the spokesperson for anything. People put me on this pedestal, but I was always a songwriter. I wrote about what I saw and felt at the time. Times change, people change. I changed too. If I continued to do what people wanted me to do, I would be betraying myself.
Eduardo Bueno: Yes, I understand. You have the right to change and to follow new paths. But for those of us who saw in you a figure of resistance, it was as if, when the world needed someone like you the most, you turned your back. As a historian, I look at figures who influence key moments, and you were that figure. Your songs had the power to move mountains...
Bob Dylan: I'm not a politician, Eduardo. I'm an artist. And art... it shouldn't be tied to a specific cause or a specific moment. I wrote about what I believed in at the time, and when it no longer made sense, I moved on. Sometimes moving on is the greatest form of freedom.
Eduardo Bueno: Yes, you're right... I see art as an act of freedom, but I think people created an expectation that you would continue to be that voice that inspired them. Maybe they expected more from you, and when you decided to stop being the leader of the "rebellion", it was a shock.
Bob Dylan: Life is full of shocks, isn't it? People cling to the idea of a hero, but I never wanted to be anyone's hero. The only thing I can do is be honest with myself, and that's what I've always tried to do. I haven't always succeeded; in fact, it's impossible to be completely consistent throughout life. What we try to do is be consistent as much as possible. Well, Eduardo, enough talking about me. I want to know more about you. Tell me about your books and your journey, from a hippie and hectic life to who you are today. And, of course, that mocking way you have of dealing with things seems interesting to me.
Eduardo Bueno: My life has been a crazy and intense journey. In the 70s, I lived the hippie spirit to the fullest, backpacking around South America and immersing myself in the counterculture. I met all kinds of people, wrote, tried to understand the world amidst its chaos, all that. Over time, I found in writing and Brazilian history a way to channel my energy and restlessness. My books combine this passion for history with irreverence. I still maintain this mocking spirit, laughing even at difficulties, which helped me get through the road. My life has been a long journey, full of difficulties, but always with good humor.
Bob Dylan: Oh, so that's it... the Brazilian way of being?
Eduardo Bueno: of course, Bob! I think you can call it that. Here in Brazil, we have this thing of laughing at our own misfortune, you know? Facing problems lightly, because if we take everything seriously, life becomes too heavy. This mocking way is almost a defense mechanism, but it can also be a philosophy of life. In the end, we improvise, like in a samba or in a conversation circle, trying to find joy even in the most complicated things.
Bob Dylan: That sounds like music, like improvisation. I think there's something there. Maybe it's what keeps the spirit free, you know? Not getting too attached to things, letting life flow. It seems like you're at peace with yourself.
Eduardo Bueno: That's its, I continue writing my books, running Buenas Histórias on YouTube and the podcast Nós na História, three crazy gaúchos talking about books and other sad things.
Bob Dylan: And why the nickname "Peninha"?
Eduardo Bueno: I got this nickname when I started my professional life as a reporter, at the age of seventeen, for the Rio Grande do Sul newspaper Zero Hora. "Peninha" is the same name as the Walt Disney Productions character who works for the newspaper A Patada.
Attention Mr. Boby Dylan, Please go to the VIP lounge. Your flight will depart at 10:00 p.m.
Eduardo Bueno: Look, time flies and we don't even realize when we're having an enjoyable conversation. You must catch your flight and I'm not going to stay here holding you back. It was a pleasure to spend these minutes with you, but It's time to say goodbye.
Bob Dylan: Yes, I must go. It was wonderful to have this conversation and to be here in Brazil. See you later, my friend. I'll be waiting for you in New York, okay?
Eduardo Bueno: Yes, I'll be there for sure. It's always an immense pleasure to talk to you. Goodbye, man!
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